What does “dialogue” mean for Adha?

Adha Gozali is an AI strategist and founder of AGC Journey, a venture focused on helping first-time founders and creators turn uncertainty into momentum through systems thinking, coaching, and AI integration. With a background in philosophy and product development, his work explores the intersection of clarity, technology, and human potential.

When we use language, we often mean different things because of different life experiences and life stories.

Darryl 00:00

So one word that you find really interesting is DIALOGUE.

Adha 00:04

Yep.

Darryl 00:06

Okay, tell me more about what this means for you.

Adha 00:10

Well, I really think our existence is, you know, as human beings, we are beings that relate with one another, right? We always yield to one another, like we want to communicate with one another. I think that's just like what humans... one of our natural tendencies... and the way we do it, I think for me, is through dialogue. And I come across that word, like, at first, dialogue? Like, what does that mean? How does that different than just talking with someone? And I think that's very interesting, because talking doesn't really imply two-ways communication, you know, like we could just, like, talk -- I tell you to follow this, follow that. Like a very one-way communication. But dialogue, for me, is just like, it's when... I want to... you know, we will, we'll have a "dialogue". That means that it necessitates that we talk with each other, you know. So I think that's a very interesting word for me, because using dialogue, for me, it kind of also reminds me that, oh, I am in a relation with this person. Like a two-way communication.

Darryl 01:37

When you say "in a relation with another person", what do you mean?

Adha 01:42

The way I see it, when we are with each other, when we meet someone, or when we talk like this, actually, we enter a kind of space, right? We enter a kind of space where, oh, Adha and Darryl are in one relation, dialogical space. So I think that's relation for me. It's that. Right now, I'm connecting with you and you are connecting with me. But there are also times when we either intentionally or unintentionally disrupt that relation, for example, when I try to control the situation, or when I try to control my... how we relate with each other. You know what I'm saying? That's not like two ways. That's not like dialogue. That's like me controlling how the space gonna do, how I will respond to Darryl, and what Darryl should say, like, I want to control that. And I think that's real hit also, in part with, you know, my tendency. So I noticed that sometimes I try to control what I project to people, right? And I think that's why I noticed that, you know, oh, when we're actually doing, you know, when we're talking with people, we're entering a space with one another, and we relate with another. But at some point, maybe intentionally or unintentionally, some parties try to control that. And I think when we try to do it, it's a very... if dialogue is two ways, and it's a very "monologue", because we might speak with one another, but in reality, we just speak to ourselves, you know, like I don't really listen to you. You don't really listen to me, because we are so caught up in what we want to do or what we should do.

Darryl 03:48

How did you arrive at this idea of dialogue between two people? There's no attempt to control the conversation, right? Yeah. How did you arrive at this definition?

Adha 04:01

I found this concept actually it's a part of philosophy. It's from a philosopher called Martin Buber, yeah, and his philosophy is, we call him the philosopher of dialogue, in a sense.

Darryl 04:14

I-Thou. I-It?

Adha 04:17

I-Thou, I-It. When I read that, it just kind of resonate with me. You know? It connects with how, oh yeah, that's how we kind of interact. That's how, at least, how I interact with people. That's how I understand it. And it kind of makes sense that, oh, okay, so there are ways of communicating, and when I understand that there are ways of communicating and there are layers of it, oh, I understand that, okay, we always relate to one another. We try to relate to one another, but our relation is dictated by how we communicate, how you want to communicate, so understanding that there are other ways of communicating, not only like one way of communicating. It's super interesting for me.

Darryl 05:11

What about personal examples in your life where you realizedthis whole idea of what dialogue is all about?

Adha 05:20

One example I could give about dialogue and so on is that... So... in... according to Buber too, dialogue means that when two people, or even multiple people meet, but we just "be ourself"? Like we don't try to control how we present or how other people should react to us. It's when you know, it's probably in our community, right? We are inside [the] REAPRA community. And I really found that it's super natural for me to... for example, when we have dinner together, I feel very unguarded. I feel very... you know, not tense, or not trying to, like, "Oh, I should present myself in certain way", or "I should talk in certain way". And I just like, talk [about] what comes across my mind, you know, like, whether it's crazy or not, whether it's true or not, whether I just, like, I don't really try to filter it too much. And that's my personal experience for me about what a dialogue is. It's when you just speak your mind.

Darryl 06:34

Do you have other examples in your personal life where... maybe both sides of the coin... where you feel inhibited when speaking to a specific person, or the other way around?

Adha 06:45

Yeah, sure, when I'm speaking in school? When I try to speak with my teacher, like there's this just like... tendency. It's to kind of present ourselves [as] the good student, right?

Darryl 07:04

Which teacher do you remember that creates[d] the most inhibition for you?

Adha 07:07

Just as a disclaimer, they're kind teachers. I have very kind teachers. It's just me, right? But it's my homeroom teacher, you know, like, because my homeroom teacher is responsible for the students in the class. So I feel like extra inhibition, right? Okay, I need to, I need to be the good student, you know? I need to present myself as a good student and so on. So whenever I talk with them, I unconsciously, I think, looking back, try to just present myself in certain way, like, oh, Adha is, I'd say, a good student, a polite one, always smiling, never really talking back, or something like that.

Darryl 07:54

This dialogue thing... Why is this word something that stands out for you?

Adha 07:57

Because it's like a call-out. when, I see it as a dialogue, [and] it calls me out as well. Like, oh, I want to have more dialogue in my life. So, for example, when I meet new people, in my mind, I thought, oh, like, "This is a dialogue," you know, like, it's a "call-out". Because I want to have more dialogue. I want to have more of that experience of just... like a genuine relation with people, like, I'm just being myself, and I also try to, you know, let them be themselves as well. And how do I do that? It's by reminding myself, oh, this is a dialogue, like, I do not want to put my... like prejudice? Or what my idea of Darryl is, into the conversation. I just want to let Darryl be Darryl, and I want to let Adha be Adha. That's why, oh, this is a dialogue, you know? It's like a call out in my mind.

Darryl 08:43

Why is it important for you to have dialogues?

Adha 08:59

Yeah, because for me, it's a joy, like, when, you know, when you talk with people, and then you're like, oh, you just feel connected with them? You just feel like it's "vibing", you know, the word like the vibe is vibing, you know, like, oh yeah. We just like, spend...you could spend hours just talking, and the vibe was good. I think that's what dialogue produces, and that's why, for me, I find joy in that, because, oh, did you also do this to me? Like, did you also like be yourself or not? Because I cannot understand your mind, right? But at least in my mind, I know that I try my best just to be who I am and not put ideas of who Darryl is, like, oh, Darryl is maybe XYZ or something like that. So I open and just try to be myself, at least. I know that. And that give me joy, because it is not easy, by the way, to do it. That's why dialogue is a call-out, right? It, oh, I'm having a dialogue. I'm calling myself out again.

Darryl 09:00

It sounds also like there are two dialogues going on? One between you and the other person, and one between you and yourself as well.

Adha 09:25

Yeah. Oh, wow, yeah, I guess you could say that.

Darryl 09:25

Okay. Is there something that comes to mind when you think about it this way?

Adha 10:01

It does. Because it's actually a really great way of understanding ourselves, too. Sometimes I caught myself that I labelled myself, but I didn't realize it, right? I just maybe thought, oh, maybe that's just like a natural thing. But then, if we call it out, like, "This is a dialogue with myself as well," I should remove my lens, right? My lens of seeing myself. I think that gives a really interesting opportunity for me, just to see Adha as Adha, in a sense, without all those label. Sometimes our self-image is not how we see ourself, but it's how we see others see ourselves, and that can be very tricky. Oh, it's actually like a call-out and like a matter to myself, like a dialogue to myself as well. That's actually a really great way of seeing it.

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